You wrote: ''There does appear to be authority in your words but it is concerning becasue the tone is akin to a self-professed expertise of Islam over the rightly held view of others.''

Reply: I do not remember to have claimed of being an expertise on Islam. If I have, please point it as to where I have done so.

I do try, inshaAllah, to present evidence from the texts, sometimes with the understanding of the early Muslims. In fact, I usually do point out in my verbal discussions that I refrain from using my own opinions.

You can help me by pointing out where I might have overstepped the boundary of Islam in my statements, so that I may correct my understanding, inshaAllah.

In this thread, I do maintain my position, which I believe is taken in the light of the Sharia. Please quote any particular statement and refute in the light of evidence, should it need refuting.

You have quoted an ayah that is not in context within your line of discussion, the ayah in surah {3:104-105} Let there arise out of you a group of people inviting to all that is good (Islam), enjoining Al-Ma’ruf (ie. Islamic monotheism and all that Islam orders one to do) and forbidding Al-munkar (polytheism and disbelief and all that Islam has forbidden). And it is they who are the successful. This actual ayah pertains to a fighting group that participates in Jihad with the hand. In the next ayah 105: And be not as those who divided and differed among themselves after the clear proofs had come to them. ALLAH forbids this ummah from imitating the division and discord of the nations that came before them. These nations also abandoned enjoining righteousness and forbidding evil, although they had proof of its necessity.

Avenger wrote:

''The fuller context relates to questions put to Logic Lover and his reluctance to back up his claims.''

Reply: Please let me know as to what I have failed to back up. Thanks.

As for your point about taking the Quranic ayats according to the context - what we need is the understanding of the companions of Rasulullah, peace be upon him, regarding a particular ayat or even part of the ayat. We do not necessarily need to include the ayats before and after to understand a particular ayat or part of it.

"especially v100 onwards, you will find that we are being advised against disputes amongts ourselves ".? Unquote- lets look to the correct understanding to these ayahs, as understood by our prophet muhammed (sallallahu alahyi wasalam) and the salaf. Your interpretation to these ayahs as well as your mounting up from previous posts to certain ayahs are not from the understanding of Ahlus sunnah wa jama. Just out of interest where do you receive your understanding? Is it derived from ‘avengers own special tafseer’?  

Now the next ayah 104 was the one you brought up to use in your argument, in post 21. Let there arise out of you a group of people inviting to all that is good (Islam), enjoining Al-Ma’ruf (ie. Islamic monotheism and all that Islam orders one to do) and forbidding Al-munkar (polytheism and disbelief and all that Islam has forbidden). And it is they who are the successful.- Again pertains to a special fighting group of believers, who participate in Jihad of the hand, and the scholars.

The next ayah 105- actually goes against you, as we have been told-  And be not as those who divided and differed among themselves after the clear proofs had come to them. - So it would seem you’re the one who holds certain views that are not from Ahlus sunnah wa jama, therefore causing disunity, by applying the ayahs used by your own desires, taken from your own understanding, this will cause us to split as we will leave off the correct message, thus instead take our own opinions over haqq. And ALLAH knows best.

There are Muslim candidates in local council elections, although some are just as bad as non muslim candidates, but nonetheless there are good Muslim candidates that I know of personally. So what is wrong with voting for Muslims from parties like the Respect Party?

No Muslim in their right mind should ever accept Democracy as a way of governance over Islam. that would amount to kufr. Nonetheless, a full implementation of Islam and Shariah in the UK is not possible, so, we must use the system, although we dont believe in it, to our advantage. It's all about utilizing the system for Muslim interests, so if Muslims candidates stand from any party, then, as long as they do not oppose Shariah and act in the interests of Islam, then I dont see anything wrong with voting them.

But, it must be said that, places where the Muslims are in majority like Pakistan, then voting or not voting shouldnt be an issue. Islam and Shariah should prevail unanimously.

Anyone who says anything is haraam in worldy matters must produce solid evidence with the backing of the Ijma of the scholars (not just one scholar) or at least the backing of highly regarded scholars from the past or present. Presenting evidences from the Quran or Hadith with our interpretation is meaningless unless the evidence is self-explanatory. To declare something haraam without clear evidence or the Ijma of scholars is called following desires and nafs, unless one himself is a qualified scholar.

As for those who are say voting is haraam completely, then what alternative solutions do you propose for the Muslims in genearl and for the Muslims in UK particular, given our particular problems?

Ihsaan wrote:

''Anyone who says anything is haraam in worldy matters must produce solid evidence with the backing of the Ijma of the scholars (not just one scholar) or at least the backing of highly regarded scholars from the past or present''

Reply: Where have you got this usl from Ihsaan? We do not necessarily need to conform to those conditions stipulated by you. The issue in discussion has been addressed as a general issue 'to vote or not to vote'. This is like 'is interest bearing account haram'? Do you need ''solid evidence with the backing of the Ijma of the scholars (not just one scholar) or at least the backing of highly regarded scholars from the past or present'' to realise that any form of 'interest' is haram?

To vote implies that we have a choice to elect something or someone over some alternatives. In Islam, our submission to the Will of Allah takes way that right of choosing. We are required to hear and obey, not hear and elect. If you agree on this principle, then justify how can one vote, even for the Shaira, never mind choosing one form of kufr over another?

Quote: ''As for those who are say voting is haraam completely, then what alternative solutions do you propose for the Muslims in genearl and for the Muslims in UK particular, given our particular problems?''

Reply: There is not need for alternatives. We are not here to look after our interests at the expense of the Sharia.

Quote: So what is wrong with voting for Muslims from parties like the Respect Party?

Reply: Becoming a member of Respect Party is kufr. Is it not enough wrong? I do not need any fatwa for that. They have agreed to abide by the rules of kufr. This is enough kufr.

Allah knows best. 

''As for those who are say voting is haraam completely, then what alternative solutions do you propose for the Muslims in genearl and for the Muslims in UK particular, given our particular problems?'' unquote.